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Post by Sir Black Fox on Oct 30, 2008 15:25:38 GMT -5
According to MDRF's Official Site: www.rennfest.comThe Latest News About Revel Grove The Maryland Renaissance Festival Considers Relocating The Village of Revel Grove The Village of Revel Grove seeks the opportunity to develop a new village in a new location to accommodate the popularity of the event and expand the facility to possibly operate additional activities. The Festival has enjoyed its present location for twenty-three seasons, after operating its first eight years in Columbia, Maryland. Once again the needs of the village and the desire to provide additional facilities for the event’s enthusiastic patrons provides the show management with the impetus to consider opportunities which could enhance and further the event. As a service based business the festival would like to respond to the services the customers would like to see improved and developed. The future of the festival during the immediate period of looking for a new home and the possible relocation, followed by the opportunity to create the next generation of renaissance festival in the industry is at once a daunting and exciting prospect. We look forward to the possibilities and we will provide announcements of our progress here for you to follow. While we continue to operate at our current home until we are able to accomplish our goal we wish to acknowledge our appreciation and gratitude to the people the festival presently works with, including local officials and our myriad suppliers and business associates. Until another day, fare thee well ***edit: Oh, and thanx to Mathemactor for giving us the original heads-up
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Post by mistresshemyngton on Oct 30, 2008 16:49:00 GMT -5
It is so exciting and yet sad. A move may allow the festival to develop some things that they have begun on but to an even greater extant. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have festival longer or even be used for other events like the PA faire does.
Sad, because I have been at fair so long that I seem to know every tree and ever rut which turns into small lakes or rivers when it rains or even which benches to avoid for certain shows. I will miss this revel grove but I do like an adventure, after all there is a little pirate inside of me.
My son, who is 16, will not be happy he has spent every season at festival since he was born, it is his home away from home and he hates moving.
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Post by tigerlily on Oct 30, 2008 19:50:12 GMT -5
I am sure that if the faire moved, it wouldn't be any closer to us, but instead would probably relocate closer to the D.C./Baltimore area...further away from us. It would effectively (probably) end our attendance at faire, save for maybe one visit per season. It's already hard enough for us to get up on the weekends with a 6 hour round-trip per weekend. To top that off, MDRF would be hard pressed to find a more perfect spot for Revel Grove with its wooded bliss, hilly areas, boardwalk, etc. I don't want open spaces and paved streets as I've seen (pictures of) in other faires. I understand the need, but personally, I think this stinks.
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Post by Sir Black Fox on Oct 30, 2008 21:29:36 GMT -5
Strictly my opinion, but that land is primo development land for homes. Look at what surrounds the festival grounds. . .just homes. The only other full plot of land other than homes is what's set aside for both the nut hut (as a former resident of such an establishment, I reserve the right to call a mental hospital facility the "nut hut) at the beginning of Crownsville Rd and the AA County Fairgrounds.
I think there is a very good chance that 2009 will be the very last season of MDRF at its present location.
If you think about it, it makes sense for the owners to move the festival for a lot of reasons.
1) Because they don't own the land, there are a lot of limitations to what they can do and one can only imagine how much of the owners' collective asses they have to kiss just to dig for better drainage, any kind of sewage, or even to erect something new on the property. The only upside to the lease is the tax liability.
2) The traffic patterns to the present location are horrific. I can only imagine what the AA County executives (insert the words ELECTED PIRATES) want the mgmt of MDRF to fork over to help maintain the roads. . .much more expand them.
Although being near Annapolis and between B'more and DC have certain tourism advantages, I'm not sure where the mgmt. could move the site that would be more cost-effective and provide easier access with less county/state involvement. They could move it to Harford or Cecil (north of Baltimore) which are a bit less-expensive or even to Charles Co., still taking advantage of the DC commutes.
Hell, if we get a governor come November that's a bit better on businesses moving here. . . Delaware is a tax-free state and the vendors would eat that idea up bigtime. I live in Bear, DE. . .. I can walk to MD in an hour. . .drive to PA in 10 and be in NJ in 15. . . . and the ground is flat and has lots of forested plots left unsold since the 1990s.
Whatever the outcome and wherever MDRF goes, we'll be here supporting the move and everything involved. Voicing our opinions and offering new ideas to MDRF from their customers is why we started this thing in 2002. . .and no one does it better or more sincerely than FriendsofMDRF.org. . . in whatever zip code it ends up!
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Post by Amras on Oct 30, 2008 22:12:12 GMT -5
Whatever they do, I feel that it will be for the best...and besides, if they move it too far away, well, PARF needs season ticket holders too...
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Post by Scotsman on Oct 31, 2008 6:21:03 GMT -5
This just sucks! Just my 2 cents ...
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April
PLAYTRON!
Posts: 18
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Post by April on Oct 31, 2008 8:10:34 GMT -5
hmm... maybe somewhere in NW Maryland? Out near Frederick/Westminster/Thurmont? North on 270, west on 70 = easy to get to and more of PA and WV would be likely to attend if it were out there. i don't know.
IMHO any change that carries even the remote possibility of an end to port-a-potties would be a good change indeed. there's little that is worse than those filthy rental privies.
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Post by tigerlily on Oct 31, 2008 8:19:20 GMT -5
I'm with Scotsman on this one. I know that Kendall and I are in the VAST minority of people who actually come from the southeast to MDRF, not to mention traveling a long distance, so I don't expect MDRF to move to a closer or more convenient location in relation to where we live. (Congratulations and bully to those who would still live close by wherever the new site will be.) MDRF is the closest ren faire to where we live...but that's not why we attend and love MDRF. Most folks might not appreciate this, but there was a certain "specialness" about MDRF, a certain spiritual connection that both Kendall and I felt the first time we ventured into Revel Grove. No, I don't have any frame of reference when it comes to comparing faires and I'm sure there are a lot of good faires out there, but neither he nor I have a "one faire is as good as any other" sort of philosophy. Revel Grove, where it is, AS it is, is, for me MDRF. (Maybe this could morph into a discussion of why people attend MDRF - or any faire - what are you looking for in a faire...what makes it for you? If I just want a place to hang out with people and have a drink in some a/c pub, for example, I can go to the nearest bar.) I know there's a lotta PARF fans on this site, but frankly, I don't want to go to PARF...I don't want nicely paved streets and air conditioned pubs. One of the things I love about MDRF and Revel Grove is its (relative) authenticity...sure, there were no Pepsi or Coke back in the Middle Ages, nor port-o-potties, and no, I don't want to walk around in sewage filled streets fighting off rats. But the rustic air of MDRF, where everything isn't pristine and man-made is a real plus to us. I can't imagine anything quite so beautiful as walking along the boardwalk and stopping to look at the trees early in the morning...or sitting at the White Hart and giving that occasional glance up to see the beautiful fall foliage just starting to turn. If FoMDRF is behind the move, I'm sorry, but I can't see myself getting behind that endorsement, so count me out. As I said earlier...I understand why this is happening...it all comes down to $$$, as MDRF is a money-making venture, first and foremost...but still, I'm with Scotsman...he couldn't have said it better...this SUCKS! (Now my 4 cents' worth)
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bigb
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Post by bigb on Oct 31, 2008 10:03:46 GMT -5
While I understand the need to grow, and want MDRF to grow, I hate to see the change... I have been to several other Ren Faires and none can compare to MDRF at its current location. I too travel to this faire, having a five hour drive to get there and usually end up with atleast two nights in a hotel. I wish it was closer, but I am sure that isn't going to happen. I have driven 10 plus hours to get to the Ga. Ren Faire and will be making the 5.5 to 6 hour trip to Carolina Ren Faire on the 15th/16th of Nov. Both nice, but they lack the feeling of Revel Grove. If they can find a new site that still carries the feel of the current site (with flushies) I am 100% for it. If not, I am still there, just not jumping for complete joy...
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Post by tigerlily on Oct 31, 2008 10:19:00 GMT -5
Glad to hear from someone who can feel my (and Kendall's) pain in regards to long distance travel to faire and the expense of lodging in the Annapolis area.
Has anyone considered that MAYBE...just MAYBE there's a reason why MDRF is so popular? Um, maybe it would possibly have to do with the location? I dunno...in spite of PARF's major publicity, they still pale in numbers (although I'm sure they're growing, as most folks want everything neat, clean, and sanitary in our new anti-bacterial, germophobic world that we live in...) to MDRF. MDRF does little (compared to other faires) in the way of advertising, and yet, folks keep coming back, year after year. If they could find a location similar to the current one, keep lotsa trees and don't add paved streets/paths, then it might be still worth attending. But nothing will EVER come close to where they are currently located. NOTHING! (and by the way...I don't have a problem with the privvies...having attended many an outdoor concert and festival, I can say the ones at MDRF are vastly superior to many others I've "experience"...I think the faire does a great job of keeping 'em up!)
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Post by tigerlily on Oct 31, 2008 10:19:59 GMT -5
Whatever they do, I feel that it will be for the best...and besides, if they move it too far away, well, PARF needs season ticket holders too... I thought I was on the Friends of the MARYLAND Renaissance Festival site.
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Post by Sir Black Fox on Oct 31, 2008 11:02:10 GMT -5
I would venture a guess that similar arguments and speculation ran rampant when MDRF moved from Columbia to Crownsville.
I would also advise folks to keep their ideas of what they think would be best for MDRF public! I know this board is scanned by the festival's mgmt and regardless of how small the rennie percentage is among the general admission, they really do value our input.
Wherever MDRF goes, so will I.
Paved paths would keep steak-on-a-stake out of children's eyes. If it were up to me, the paving would be done in high traffic areas and maybe just in a circle through the new village. Off into the woods and fields would be paths similar to what Revel Grove has already. Why not offer the convenience AND the traditional roads? Why not get the fire marshal off our backs and provide some ADA access to those who need it? The more folks who share in this hobby of ours, the better, says I.
Just my opinion but this move, whenever it occurs, will be the best thing to ever happen to MDRF. As with any change, it'll take getting used to. . . but think of the adventure of a new village to explore that's reminiscent of the old one (most of the buildings of Revel Grove were built as non-permanent structures).
New pubs and more room for crowds. . . perhaps a huge Oktoberfest beer-hall and a castle to rival Disney with a grand buffet hall with great fire places.
Your imagination can go nuts as to how to make MDRF better in it's "Next Generation" status. As Friends Of MDRF, we can finally have greater input at the initial stages.
So Post your ideas in the new "MDRF:TNG" Category!
I say let's all get on board!
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Post by Lady de la Warr on Oct 31, 2008 13:29:28 GMT -5
First let me just say - we can love both MDRF and PARF equally - for different reasons mind you but there's no reason we can't love both.
While they do have paved lanes, PARF does not have air conditioned pubs. The only A/C I know of is in the mansion and the wine shop. Neither of those are on the actual "faire grounds" but are both located "outside" the faire. The wine shop is open for business while faire is going on, but the only "drinking" that is done in there is wine tasting - this is not a pub. The mansion is not open to the public on faire days (to my knowledge).
The privvies at MDRF are atrocious!! They do NOT keep them clean by any stretch of the imagination. So no matter what they do - move or not - they MUST do something about those privvies - they are a public health hazard and I'm concerned the board of health is going to come in there one of these days and see those privvies and.........well there will be trouble. If nothing else the faire could have "privvy fairies" like other faires I've been to that go around and keep things tidy. That will do nothing for the "fullness" the privvies exhibit by the end of the day - but to have the privvies unusable by 2 pm is not acceptable and something really needs to be done.
That said - I DO love the ambiance and feel of the MDRF as is. The wooded areas, meandering lanes, permanent fixtures and landscaping all lend to the atmosphere of a wonderful faire. That along with all the wonderful memories I have of Revel Grove, the friends made and visited with each time I enter the gates - that makes this site very special. However I do think some improvements are in order and if moving the site will allow/help management to expand the faire and to take advantage of the money making opportunities they are currently missing on the off season due to the owners not allowing them to expand their horizons, I am all for it. The more activities they can get the more money they make and the more they can put back into the grounds/faire activities.
As for paving the lanes, I happen to like paved lanes but I wear court gowns to faire so it only stands to reason that anything I can do to keep my hems out of the mud/dust is a good thing. However I can fully appreciate those who don't want to see the lanes paved - it does take something away from the ambiance. I think a good compromise would be cobblestone lanes - just something to keep the mud and dust down - and it most likely wouldn't take away fron the 16th century ambiance if done correctly. One of the problems I have with MDRF is the dust - I went closing weekend and was sick for a week from all the dust I breathed in. Now - I wouldn't have missed it for the world - but I would rather not be sick for a week each time I attend my beautiful faire from the dust bowl effect during dry spells. I realize not everyone has that problem but a lot of people do so that's something to consider.
Much like many of the others here - whatever they decide to do I'll be there. If they move very far away I'll just be there less often. But I'll be there.
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Post by Mathemactor on Oct 31, 2008 15:51:23 GMT -5
***edit: Oh, and thanx to Mathemactor for giving us the original heads-up Actually, I was referring to that wonderful news about Mr. Gary Dixon. I didn't think there would be any interest in the other stuff.
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Post by ladyneysa on Nov 1, 2008 11:59:18 GMT -5
I don't know what to think of all this. I've often wondered if they would ever have to relocate due to growing crowds, or if they'd ever lose the lease etc., but now that it appears to be happening, it's rather a shock.
It's going to be so hard to get used to this idea. I'm not the kind of person who accepts change easily. Even good changes sometimes stress me out. I know I should look at this with enthusiasm and as an exciting new adventure. Excitement, adventure and willingness to try new things, IS part of why I love being a rennie after all. Still....my kneejerk reaction is to agree with Tigerlily and Scotsman. The idea of the festival moving is bumming me out severely. I love the location where it is. It's a beautiful site. In essense, wherever they move to, even though it will still be MDRF...it will be a whole new faire, and the one we've always known will be gone forever.
If they find a site that is comparable, that's great I guess, but it will never have quite the same ambience. I know change is inevitable, but I still don't like it! Too many changes going on in the world and in my life, and now this too! However little my attendance to faire has been, it has always been a familiar fixture in the background of my life. It's the only faire my kids and I have ever been too. I can't imagine not getting that yearly photo of Becca in that one chair hammock at the end of the booth, since she was 6.
The way Revel Grove is now is part of what makes it so special. Whenever I've read stuff elsewhere about MDRF, even people from other areas of the country make remarks like "Oh, MDRF is one of the best I've been to", or "I hear its really special",etc. I know its not just the physical location, it's the acts, vendors, and everything as a whole that make Revel Grove what it is. Location IS of utmost importance though. It'll make or break a business.
I really, really hope they don't move too far away. Right now, Crownsville, aproximately 1 hr. and 20 away, is pushing how far I want to drive. I know some of you drive MUCH farther, but I HATE driving on I-95, or on the beltway, or anything close to city driving. I avoid it like the plague. Truthfully, I never have a reason to drive out there unless I'm going south to faire. Having to learn a new route and unfamiliar roads= much anxiety!
Whatever they do with the new site, I really hope they don't pave it, or make it look theme park-ish. That would be tragic. I'm not slamming any other faires here, I just don't like the idea of our quaint village looking like a theme park. I know there's a need to make faire more wheel chair accesible, but I hope they find a better way to do it than with pavement. I DO know what its like to push a wheel chair around faire as my brother is handicapped, and it DOES stink! I've only been able to bring him one time. I know he would love to come to faire more, he's always up for new and fun things, but it really didn't work too well for us. Hopefully they'll come up with something functional and attractive. The cobblestones could work, maybe..I dunno..
Also, I don't know why, but the idea of the site being used for other things during the year bugs me. Again, this is no slam to other faires, but I just like the idea of the site being used soley for faire, it makes it more special and unique somehow.
Finally, I hope this move won't drastically change the cost of admission. I know with everything under the sun being more expensive nowadays, it's inevitable prices could go up. (When I first started going in '93, it was only $14.95) We've enjoyed a steady price for the last few years and if it goes up much more, it could put faire out of my reach.
I'm sure we'll all be following this with much nail biting interest in the coming year. I'm very sad this is happening even if the reasons for it are good, which I hope they are. I just hope the timetable doesn't move things along too quickly, and that we do indeed have at least one more season to say goodbye to the site and adjust to the idea.
Honestly, I don't envy the position management is in. I'm sure they're already being bombarded with "various opinions" about this to put it nicely.
I'll try really hard to keep an open mind about this, since there's nothing I can do to change things anyway. All I can do is give my opinion. No matter what the outcome, I wish MDRF luck, and REALLY hope I can continue to be part of it.
I'll hope for the best.
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Post by tigerlily on Nov 3, 2008 18:13:48 GMT -5
The privvies at MDRF are atrocious!! They do NOT keep them clean by any stretch of the imagination. So no matter what they do - move or not - they MUST do something about those privvies - they are a public health hazard and I'm concerned the board of health is going to come in there one of these days and see those privvies and.........well there will be trouble. If nothing else the faire could have "privvy fairies" like other faires I've been to that go around and keep things tidy. That will do nothing for the "fullness" the privvies exhibit by the end of the day - but to have the privvies unusable by 2 pm is not acceptable and something really needs to be done. Granted, the privvies are not the most ideal or sanitary of things. I never said they were clean. However, even "flushies" can become gross if not properly maintained throughout the day. Having been to many outdoor concert and festival with far FEWER attendees than MDRF on an average day, I have always found the privvies to be relatively "not bad"...sure, there's the occasional "oh my god I will NOT go in that one" and when I come across that occasional privvie, I don't go in, but find another one immediately that is more "user friendly." Also, there are always the ones to avoid, like the one by the elephants/jousting field, particularly late in the day. My point was, that compared to a lot of other outdoor events where port-o-lets are used, MDRF's weren't all that bad, especially when one considers the usage those things get. I'd hate for anyone here to get the impression that I think the privvies at MDRF are wonderful...I DO have my standards.
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anonnymouseNoMore
Ren Geek
HRH King Henry VIII
That's a really ugly skinny me in the avatar!
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Post by anonnymouseNoMore on Nov 3, 2008 20:55:08 GMT -5
Remember when Mathemactor and I started plugging Polish Joke like fiends --- six months before it opened? And I started geeking out about the next Star Trek movie a year and a half before its release? By comparison --- This is an event that MAY or MAY NOT happen four years from now. Next decade. At the end of the next President's first term. Not to diminish its importance, and I agree its interesting to ponder ... but I've seen alot of good peeps on both boards jump to the worst conclusions and get a little too emotional over this. Quite alot of energy expended on massive missives over something quite distant in the future --- and then even only possibly. Management is being very open on this subject. They don't have to be. The only reason its mentioned now is A) because they have to get their ducks in a row now to prepare for this >POSSIBILITY<, and B) they don't want you guys left in the dark picking up half-gossip. Because then you freak out and worry, don't you? The fact that they are being open should bring us all great comfort. Management is proceeding with the wisdom of Solomon on this, just as they have in the past on other issues that have worried us: - Revamping Pub Sing - Moving Chess Game to a stage - And let's not forget ... introducing someone new into a highly visible role left vacant by the death of a beloved man So, relax folks. I'd say you're in good hands. You always have been
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Post by mistresshemyngton on Nov 4, 2008 8:57:33 GMT -5
I am in total agreement! The management wants the best for their patrons! That is why they try new things in the hopes that things don't go stagnant but if something changes and there is an overwhelming desire for it, they will try and bring it back. I have never seen the festival management be unreasonable. But they are a business and yes a business needs to please their customers but they too need to make money or the business will end. And how many of us have wished for the festival to open up even more areas to allow growth. The festival has expanded to the seams literally and the parking, well how many of you have sat in your car wishing parking was better? By-the-way, this season's last day, I could not believe how well they did with emptying the parking lot at the end of Festival! But I digress..
If the Festival moves and that is if, I know they will strive to keep it with the same atmosphere that we have come to enjoy and love at the current site. Their openness to tell us where they are in the process and what they are looking for gives me the hope that they too like what they have but would love to make it better for those of us who call it our home from home. I too would like for festival to remain at the current site but I am not worried because no matter what, the friends I have because of faire will remain the same and we will enjoy ourselves wherever we are!
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Post by ladyneysa on Nov 4, 2008 9:08:29 GMT -5
The privvies at MDRF are atrocious!! They do NOT keep them clean by any stretch of the imagination. So no matter what they do - move or not - they MUST do something about those privvies - they are a public health hazard and I'm concerned the board of health is going to come in there one of these days and see those privvies and.........well there will be trouble. If nothing else the faire could have "privvy fairies" like other faires I've been to that go around and keep things tidy. That will do nothing for the "fullness" the privvies exhibit by the end of the day - but to have the privvies unusable by 2 pm is not acceptable and something really needs to be done. Granted, the privvies are not the most ideal or sanitary of things. I never said they were clean. However, even "flushies" can become gross if not properly maintained throughout the day. Having been to many outdoor concert and festival with far FEWER attendees than MDRF on an average day, I have always found the privvies to be relatively "not bad"...sure, there's the occasional "oh my god I will NOT go in that one" and when I come across that occasional privvie, I don't go in, but find another one immediately that is more "user friendly." Also, there are always the ones to avoid, like the one by the elephants/jousting field, particularly late in the day. My point was, that compared to a lot of other outdoor events where port-o-lets are used, MDRF's weren't all that bad, especially when one considers the usage those things get. I'd hate for anyone here to get the impression that I think the privvies at MDRF are wonderful...I DO have my standards. Putting up with port o pots is just one of those inconveniences one must learn to put up with at any large outdoor event. My only real gripe is that a number of years ago they actually had these portable sink things with running water and soap but they took them away. I can only guess as to why - too hard to keep supplied, or maybe they caused too much congestion, what with some people wanting to wash like they're getting ready for surgery rather than just having a quick wash up. Still, it would be nice if they brought them back. They weren't ideal, but it was a lot better than just hand sanitizer.
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Post by tigerlily on Nov 4, 2008 9:47:54 GMT -5
Granted, the privvies are not the most ideal or sanitary of things. I never said they were clean. However, even "flushies" can become gross if not properly maintained throughout the day. Having been to many outdoor concert and festival with far FEWER attendees than MDRF on an average day, I have always found the privvies to be relatively "not bad"...sure, there's the occasional "oh my god I will NOT go in that one" and when I come across that occasional privvie, I don't go in, but find another one immediately that is more "user friendly." Also, there are always the ones to avoid, like the one by the elephants/jousting field, particularly late in the day. My point was, that compared to a lot of other outdoor events where port-o-lets are used, MDRF's weren't all that bad, especially when one considers the usage those things get. I'd hate for anyone here to get the impression that I think the privvies at MDRF are wonderful...I DO have my standards. Putting up with port o pots is just one of those inconveniences one must learn to put up with at any large outdoor event. My only real gripe is that a number of years ago they actually had these portable sink things with running water and soap but they took them away. I can only guess as to why - too hard to keep supplied, or maybe they caused too much congestion, what with some people wanting to wash like they're getting ready for surgery rather than just having a quick wash up. Still, it would be nice if they brought them back. They weren't ideal, but it was a lot better than just hand sanitizer. I've seen those wash stations. Once a year we have an Eastern Shore Harvest Festival held in lower Northampton County and there, they use the port-o-lets and have a foot pump operated wash station...even some of the port-o-lets have them INSIDE...you pump a small pump with your foot which gives a small stream of water and have something similar for the liquid soap dispenser. I would imagine it causes a bit of a traffic jam, like you said, but they would be a step up from the hand sanitizer.
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Post by willpaisley on Nov 4, 2008 10:27:20 GMT -5
Putting up with port o pots is just one of those inconveniences one must learn to put up with at any large outdoor event. My only real gripe is that a number of years ago they actually had these portable sink things with running water and soap but they took them away. I can only guess as to why - too hard to keep supplied, or maybe they caused too much congestion, what with some people wanting to wash like they're getting ready for surgery rather than just having a quick wash up. Still, it would be nice if they brought them back. They weren't ideal, but it was a lot better than just hand sanitizer. That's one thing that could be fixed with a new venue. I recall permanent sinks, with non-potable pump water, that went away around 2002 or 2003. I've been told that they strained the existing septic system and had to be removed. I've only ever seen the portable sinks with foot pumps at other faires.
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Post by Lady de la Warr on Nov 4, 2008 21:51:06 GMT -5
The privvies at MDRF are atrocious!! They do NOT keep them clean by any stretch of the imagination. So no matter what they do - move or not - they MUST do something about those privvies - they are a public health hazard and I'm concerned the board of health is going to come in there one of these days and see those privvies and.........well there will be trouble. If nothing else the faire could have "privvy fairies" like other faires I've been to that go around and keep things tidy. That will do nothing for the "fullness" the privvies exhibit by the end of the day - but to have the privvies unusable by 2 pm is not acceptable and something really needs to be done. Granted, the privvies are not the most ideal or sanitary of things. I never said they were clean. However, even "flushies" can become gross if not properly maintained throughout the day. Having been to many outdoor concert and festival with far FEWER attendees than MDRF on an average day, I have always found the privvies to be relatively "not bad"...sure, there's the occasional "oh my god I will NOT go in that one" and when I come across that occasional privvie, I don't go in, but find another one immediately that is more "user friendly." Also, there are always the ones to avoid, like the one by the elephants/jousting field, particularly late in the day. My point was, that compared to a lot of other outdoor events where port-o-lets are used, MDRF's weren't all that bad, especially when one considers the usage those things get. I'd hate for anyone here to get the impression that I think the privvies at MDRF are wonderful...I DO have my standards. Well the problem comes in when a: you are wearing hoop skirts and won't fit in another privvy - you HAVE to use the big one and b: when you can look in any privvy you want and they are ALL nasty. We experienced this dilemma on closing weekend - by 2 pm every privvy I looked inside of in the place was so entirely untenable that you either had to hold it or find a tree somewhere. Don't get me wrong - I fully understand that privvies in an outdoor venue are necessary and I normally have no problem with them - I am not squeemish in the least - but I also have my standards as well and nasty is nasty. I also realize that even permanent sanitary facilities can become nasty if not maintained, which is why many faires I have attended have "privvy fairies" that tidy them up thoughout the day. And that seems to work fairly well - even when they're porta johns. All I am saying is in the current situation I think the faire management could do a better job at keeping the "sanitary facilities" somewhat agreeable - or at least usable. The way it is now, by early afternoon they are not anything resembling agreeable and are completely unusable when attendance is huge.
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Post by drube77 on Feb 5, 2009 7:55:04 GMT -5
Putting up with port o pots is just one of those inconveniences one must learn to put up with at any large outdoor event. My only real gripe is that a number of years ago they actually had these portable sink things with running water and soap but they took them away. I can only guess as to why - too hard to keep supplied, or maybe they caused too much congestion, what with some people wanting to wash like they're getting ready for surgery rather than just having a quick wash up. Still, it would be nice if they brought them back. They weren't ideal, but it was a lot better than just hand sanitizer. I've seen those wash stations. Once a year we have an Eastern Shore Harvest Festival held in lower Northampton County and there, they use the port-o-lets and have a foot pump operated wash station...even some of the port-o-lets have them INSIDE...you pump a small pump with your foot which gives a small stream of water and have something similar for the liquid soap dispenser. I would imagine it causes a bit of a traffic jam, like you said, but they would be a step up from the hand sanitizer. the problem i have seen with the pump sinks is people tend to think of them as trash cans / toilets and bathing stations. We did an event for Civil war reenacting at Old Bedford Village , and saw many women using the pump sinks to wash their babys butts . Since the trash cans were full they tossed the diaper in the sink . The trash was taken out every hour so its not like it was a days worth and she could have eaily put it on top the rubbish heap . I have also seen it used as a vomit receptical for many a drunked reenactor and dehydrated spectator as well . Ill stay with the sanitizer at least that stuff kills what ever got on your hands , soap and water will get rid of some but you really have to wash for a good minute at leas t to get rid of most of the stuff you pick up on the port a johns
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Post by willpaisley on Aug 18, 2009 15:06:54 GMT -5
Excuse the huge time lapse, but this took a fair bit of time to write, and by the time I was finished, the board was in its doldrums, so I decided to wait until people were in a more faire-ish frame of mind again: (Maybe this could morph into a discussion of why people attend MDRF - or any faire - what are you looking for in a faire...what makes it for you? If I just want a place to hang out with people and have a drink in some a/c pub, for example, I can go to the nearest bar.) I know there's a lotta PARF fans on this site, but frankly, I don't want to go to PARF...I don't want nicely paved streets and air conditioned pubs. One of the things I love about MDRF and Revel Grove is its (relative) authenticity...sure, there were no Pepsi or Coke back in the Middle Ages, nor port-o-potties, and no, I don't want to walk around in sewage filled streets fighting off rats. But the rustic air of MDRF, where everything isn't pristine and man-made is a real plus to us. I can't imagine anything quite so beautiful as walking along the boardwalk and stopping to look at the trees early in the morning...or sitting at the White Hart and giving that occasional glance up to see the beautiful fall foliage just starting to turn. This has been one of my favorite topics about faire in general. Most everybody will say that their home faire, whatever it is, is the best, and when asked what it is about that faire that makes it the best, those same somebodies will usually reply "I don't know - other faires are nice, but there's just something about (fill-in-the-blank) faire ...". For whatever reason, I've never been satisfied with reasons like that. I particularly don't want to be the one giving that as justification for why I like my favorite faire the best. Consequently, I've spent a lot of time trying to quantify what I like about this faire or another. I definitely agree that one faire is not the same as any other, and although I like different faires for different reasons, I certainly have a favorite, and I tell myself it's for reasons other than it's the first one I went to or it's the one with all my friends. That said, I've also seen things at other faires that I would love to see at my favorite faire. PARF has a lot of great acts, and a lot of bargain shopping. I love the prices in their weapons shop, and I don't mind that it's built to look like a pirate ship. I like that they've been serving Gatorade for years, as it's practically my life's blood during the hotter weekends at faire. I like that the cast will interact with me even though I'm in garb. I especially like their bawdy acts; Looney Lucy and Ploppy would literally slay audiences at the White Hart. And as a spectacle, their closing show - the Finale in Song - makes MDRF's Pub Sing look like an unpolished high school production. I'm not even bothered by the paving that much. Much of PARF is in a crowded village setting, and somewhat narrow streets with (some sort of) paving fits. I also certainly don't miss walking through the mud, or clearing enough dust out of my nose after faire to have voting rights in whatever jurisdiction the faire happens to be in. I just wish they had make some effort to make the paving *look* period; perhaps by molding the asphalt when it was first put down and painting it to resemble cobblestones or bricks or something. Although I definitely prefer the look of an MDRF or CRF, the paving's not enough to keep me away from the faire. That said, I didn't even bother going to PARF at all last year. I've done all the shopping I need to do there for the time being. I've seen all their shows, and they change very little from year to year. I know there are active wenches and rogues guilds on site; I've even seen PARF wenches at their wench hostel, yet I've never seen or heard about them doing typical guild things such as wenchings, roguings or meet and greets. Finally, I miss the sing-a-long aspect of the White Hart and Pub Sing. As spectacular as the Finale is, the audience watches in silence. They even have one song where they actively encourage singing along; the lyrics are printed in the program, practically every single employee of the faire is running up and down the aisles trying to get people to join in, and whenever I sing, anybody not from MDRF (who are also singing along) gives me a dirty look. Imagine watching Wolgemut on stage doing the Polar Bear Dance, sitting in the audience in total silence, and politely clapping at the end. That's a very big difference between faires for me. CRF is a great faire, although quite the drive from me. They also have great acts (specifically the Lost Boys, which is one of the few Ren musical acts I consider to be in the same league as the Pyrates Royale). They also have lots of bargain shopping - New Pterodactyl Leather emptied my wallet the first three years I went there. The grounds are somewhat reminiscent of MDRF, with no paving and a fair number of trees (though mainly confined to one stretch of the faire). Their guilds are active, and I generally see one wenching or roguing every year I visit. I have some minor qualms, such as its early closing time, the layout of the faire itself (like a huge question mark with no loops, making you walk all the way back the way you came when you come to the end), and the general perception of the management as being uptight (the local guilds seems to be on pins and needles as far as the management is concerned), but overall I really like it - enough to drive six hours each way to get there. Still, even if it were next door, I'd drive past it and go the extra hour to go to MDRF every weekend. Except for the Lost Boys (who show up as irregularly and in as many different incarnations as Van Halen), they have little of the type of musical comedy that you can't walk for 20 seconds within MDRF without tripping over. There is also a notable absence of pubs; plenty of places to buy beer, but no pubs where one can sit down and talk, and absolutely no place to sit down and drink while being entertained (unless you bring your beer to a stage show). In short, there's no place to sit and "hang out". While ths faire might be like staying at Grandma's house (much of that being due to the presence of the Pyrates Royale and a large contingent of MDRFers in attendance when we visit), it's still not "home". I've only been to Sterling once. It reminded me a bit of PARF, in that it seemed to be a compact faire with lots of narrow paths in places (though no pavement). They have some unique vendors (Pendragon!) and some unique shows. Their Trial and Dunk features an actual pond and their mud show's the best I've ever seen. Still, the majority of their acts are the same circuit performers we see at other faires: Don Juan and Miguel, Hey Nunnie Nunnie, London Broil and Daniel, Duke of Danger. Although their pub sing's on a stage, their crowd's every bit as devoted to showing up early and getting a good seat as the White Hart crowd. From there, though, their pub sing is somewhat reminscent of the Rose Jones Pub Sing this past season, only without the fiddling and other excitement. It was straight singing, with nothing noteworthy about either the songs or the performances thereof. It was like a cross between a church service and a revival meeting. Finally, I did find one pub there, but it was completely closed in, air-conditioned (not necessarily a bad thing), and the line to get in was tremendously long. From what I was told by people who had waited the hour or more to get inside, the entertainment was underwhelming. VARF was the faire that taught me how important the people were to the faire. VARF's 2003 faire site has to be the worst ever site for ambiance and atmosphere, as it was behind the parking lot of a large indoor flea market and so close to I-95 that you could see 18 wheelers go by behind the trees. Still, we bought season tickets and enjoyed ourselves every time. By virtue of its size, VARF is able to provide its patrons extended interaction with its cast, with the willingness of the patron being the only limitation. We had one guy show up in blue jeans, a t-shirt and baseball cap. His cap had the Philadelphia Phillies logo on it, so he was instantly dubbed the Duke of Philadelphia and treated as a noble all day. By the end of the day he was part of the court, sitting as a judge at the Court of Common Pleas and was routinely rising up peasants who reveranced him. Garbed patrons even get a chance to "play", which isn't always true at other faires with large numbers of patrons in street clothes (although I must admit having a lot of trouble as a cast member doing this with the people I know from MDRF, mostly because we know each other so well, but partly because it's hard to get my character taken seriously when everybody is used to seeing me wearing a big dopey moose hat). I'm well aware, however, that it's much easier to make a list of the good things about VARF than to try to catalog all its shortcomings. VARF provides good examples of how to improve things at faire without having to spend oodles of money. Hmm, if Tigerlily's post was her 4¢ worth, then I'm probably coming up on $3 and change right about now, and I haven't even summed up yet. As Tigerlilly alluded to in her post, the definition of "best" depends on one's personal criteria. For someone who can't stand hot food, the most authentic Mexican food available would probably be horrible, and they might long for the "good" stuff served at Taco Hell. Similarly, I recall talking to a performer who experienced our Pub Sing and felt it just wasn't the "same" as Sterling's, since we didn't get all weepy and sentimental every week the way they do. Knowing and defining what one is looking for in a faire is the only way to compare faires by anything other than gut emotion. As my criteria includes a place where one can sit down indefinitely, eat and drink while different and unpredictable entertainment delivers itself to you every 30 minutes or so, any faire with a place like the White Hart Tavern will be a favorite of mine.
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Post by Sir Black Fox on Aug 18, 2009 18:54:20 GMT -5
Hmm, if Tigerlily's post was her 4¢ worth, then I'm probably coming up on $3 and change right about now, and I haven't even summed up yet. As Tigerlilly alluded to in her post, the definition of "best" depends on one's personal criteria. For someone who can't stand hot food, the most authentic Mexican food available would probably be horrible, and they might long for the "good" stuff served at Taco Hell. Similarly, I recall talking to a performer who experienced our Pub Sing and felt it just wasn't the "same" as Sterling's, since we didn't get all weepy and sentimental every week the way they do. Knowing and defining what one is looking for in a faire is the only way to compare faires by anything other than gut emotion. As my criteria includes a place where one can sit down indefinitely, eat and drink while different and unpredictable entertainment delivers itself to you every 30 minutes or so, any faire with a place like the White Hart Tavern will be a favorite of mine. Excellent post Will. . . thank you for that m'friend.
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Post by capthayes on Aug 22, 2009 11:28:03 GMT -5
Excuse the huge time lapse, but this took a fair bit of time to write, and by the time I was finished, the board was in its doldrums, so I decided to wait until people were in a more faire-ish frame of mind again: Hmm, if Tigerlily's post was her 4¢ worth, then I'm probably coming up on $3 and change right about now, and I haven't even summed up yet. As Tigerlilly alluded to in her post, the definition of "best" depends on one's personal criteria. For someone who can't stand hot food, the most authentic Mexican food available would probably be horrible, and they might long for the "good" stuff served at Taco Hell. Similarly, I recall talking to a performer who experienced our Pub Sing and felt it just wasn't the "same" as Sterling's, since we didn't get all weepy and sentimental every week the way they do. Knowing and defining what one is looking for in a faire is the only way to compare faires by anything other than gut emotion. As my criteria includes a place where one can sit down indefinitely, eat and drink while different and unpredictable entertainment delivers itself to you every 30 minutes or so, any faire with a place like the White Hart Tavern will be a favorite of mine. A most excellent post. I grew up with the MDRF, my parents took me the first year, back when it was in Symphony Woods, and I ahve been going every since. Over the years, I have been to Connecticut, Carolina, VARF, and Sterling, and they are all fun. However, something about MD just feels right to me. The changing of the weather, the pubs (who doesn't like hanging out at the White Hart) the food and the shows, all take me back to a happy place (kind of like in the movie Ratatouille when the food critic first tastes the rat's Ratatouille) For me, happiness is an ale, in wooden mug listening to Wolgumut, The Rogues, Cercamon, The Pyrates Royale, or the like. See you all in less than a week!
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