Neilr
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Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Aug 31, 2009 8:17:03 GMT -5
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Post by daisyodanny on Aug 31, 2009 8:27:42 GMT -5
Oh sweet vanity! You got pictures of DeeDee's new bodice and my new hat! Thank you so much!
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Neilr
PLAYTRON!
Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Aug 31, 2009 10:48:34 GMT -5
Hi Daisy, Here's a tighter crop of one of them. Now that I have a good excuse, I'll definitely have to focus closer on DeeDee's bodice next week Neil Attachments:
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Post by willpaisley on Aug 31, 2009 13:34:54 GMT -5
Great set of pics! Excellent job of showing the various parts of the faire. All too often one falls into the trap of taking too many posed pictures of one's friends, or just random pics of things in the lanes, but you did a good job of illustrating what a day at faire is like.
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Neilr
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Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Aug 31, 2009 15:29:45 GMT -5
Thanks, Will. I actually tend to think I spend too much time shooting stage shows and not enough time shooting candids. Seriously! Maybe we all need more balance but balance gets tougher after each draft
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Post by Sir Black Fox on Aug 31, 2009 15:31:49 GMT -5
balance gets tougher after each draft MORE BEER PHOTOS!
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Post by willpaisley on Aug 31, 2009 16:11:54 GMT -5
Thanks, Will. I actually tend to think I spend too much time shooting stage shows and not enough time shooting candids. Seriously! Maybe we all need more balance but balance gets tougher after each draft Candids are quirky. You either luck out and capture a little magic, like a fairy blowing a bubble for a little girl dressed as a princess (and even then, a little magic goes a long way - how many little princess girl pics can one look at before reaching for the insulin?), or you spot somebody in an exceptional outfit (either exceptionally good or exceptionally bad), or you get a picture of a regular at faire, and then all the people who are friends with that person goes "Look! There's a picture of somebody I'm friends with!". Also, for me, candids all tend to blend together. After five or six I can barely tell what faire they were taken at, unless the background is truly unmistakable, like the pipes of the Lyric Stage or the wall of the White Hart Tavern. To 90% of the patrons at faire, the shows *are* the faire, and photography is excellent for capturing the magic of a Michael Rossman or a joust. On the other hand, pictures don't do much for singing groups, unless it's the Pyrates or the O'Dannys and you happen to catch them doing something extraordinary (which is just a matter of waiting).
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Neilr
PLAYTRON!
Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Aug 31, 2009 17:17:24 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. I think part of my problem is that this is the 6th year I've been shooting the shows and it's getting hard to do something new and different. That was the reason for the zoomies in that gallery; just an experiment.
If you want to think deeply about this and what "sells" images, consider cleavage. I don't in any way chase cleavage at the Faire but it's hard to avoid and I surely don't avoid it. I get very detailed historical hit rates on my pbase images and I can say with certainty that there is a statistical relationship between cleavage and hit rates!
And then there are the people (usually women but not always) that beg me to take their pictures. Half the time they don't even ask for a card. And they never email back or comment in the galleries that they ever saw it. No inordinate hit rate, sometimes none at all. They are usually well past their 6th brew, of course, and I am sure that the next morning they empty their packets and find my card and they think... "who is that and if he took my picture I sure hope I had all my clothes on". Hehe. Interestingly, the same thing happened to me this year when I spent an evening on the boards at OC during Senior Week.
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Post by willpaisley on Aug 31, 2009 17:47:39 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. I think part of my problem is that this is the 6th year I've been shooting the shows and it's getting hard to do something new and different. That was the reason for the zoomies in that gallery; just an experiment. If you want to think deeply about this and what "sells" images, consider cleavage. I don't in any way chase cleavage at the Faire but it's hard to avoid and I surely don't avoid it. I get very detailed historical hit rates on my pbase images and I can say with certainty that there is a statistical relationship between cleavage and hit rates! The question that I'd pose in front of what 'sells" images (which is a very good question, btw), is what's the objective of the group of pictures. Is it to capture what the photographer likes about faire, in order to reminisce in the off season? If so, this is why so many people's photobucket sites are full of pictures of themselves and their friends posing for the camera. Hell, if you look at a teenager's photo album on FaceBook, half the time it's all phone cam photos of themselves with their friends, taken by themselves at arm's length. Much of the time you can't even tell where the picture is taken or what the occasion of the photo is; all you can see are several smiling faces and the arm of whoever's taking the picture. Is it to try to "sell" (or perhaps "explain the appeal of" would be a better phrase) the activity in question? If so, your photos do an excellent job. They show much of the activity going on at faire, along with the colorful scenery you don't see anywhere else. Is it to try to get lots of people to look at the pictures? Then, as you said, cleavage "sells". Is it to actually sell photos? In that case, one needs to take professional grade photos (better than the photos people can take of themselves), and take pictures of people likely to want to pay for pictures of themselves (unlike the people on the OC boardwalk you mention). When I first started posting pictures, I tried to capture the special exciting bits of the various magic and swordfight acts. It was an attempt to explain to others the appeal of the faire to me. As I saw all the acts to the point of virtually memorizing all the cues, I started storyboarding some of the shows with dialog, particularly Pub Sing - let's face it; the only way you can explain belly dancers with fairy wings dancing to Stairway To Heaven being performed by German bagpipes and Vulcan gypsies is to take a picture. Nowadays I'm probably more guilty than I'd like to be of taking pictures of playtron events that are important to me and my wife, such as wenchings and meet and greets. There aren't too many pictures of myself taken with my own camera - if I see to see myself in garb, I can simply google "Virginia faire" or "moose". ;D
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Post by lordwriothsley on Aug 31, 2009 20:00:29 GMT -5
Nice job on the photos Neilr. Thanks for sharing them my friend.
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Post by Mathemactor on Sept 1, 2009 7:30:04 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. I think part of my problem is that this is the 6th year I've been shooting the shows and it's getting hard to do something new and different. That was the reason for the zoomies in that gallery; just an experiment. If you want to think deeply about this and what "sells" images, consider cleavage. I don't in any way chase cleavage at the Faire but it's hard to avoid and I surely don't avoid it. I get very detailed historical hit rates on my pbase images and I can say with certainty that there is a statistical relationship between cleavage and hit rates! The question that I'd pose in front of what 'sells" images (which is a very good question, btw), is what's the objective of the group of pictures...(lots of words)... I can simply google "Virginia faire" or "moose". ;D What immediately captures my interest and the spirit of MDRF are pictures of patrons being given philosophers' stones by the Village alchemist.
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Post by Mathemactor on Sept 1, 2009 7:34:49 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. I think part of my problem is that this is the 6th year I've been shooting the shows and it's getting hard to do something new and different. That was the reason for the zoomies in that gallery; just an experiment. If you want to think deeply about this and what "sells" images, consider cleavage. I don't in any way chase cleavage at the Faire but it's hard to avoid and I surely don't avoid it. I get very detailed historical hit rates on my pbase images and I can say with certainty that there is a statistical relationship between cleavage and hit rates! And then there are the people (usually women but not always) that beg me to take their pictures. Half the time they don't even ask for a card. And they never email back or comment in the galleries that they ever saw it. No inordinate hit rate, sometimes none at all. They are usually well past their 6th brew, of course, and I am sure that the next morning they empty their packets and find my card and they think... "who is that and if he took my picture I sure hope I had all my clothes on". Hehe. Interestingly, the same thing happened to me this year when I spent an evening on the boards at OC during Senior Week. I think your photograph DSCN_158334.JPG shows your pure genius. Thank you.
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Neilr
PLAYTRON!
Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Sept 1, 2009 11:14:42 GMT -5
Hehe... Mathemactor, one thing for sure is that most people like pictures of themselves :-). That was my opening shot as I walked in the gate. Stupina was next, but she is a staple shot.
I have not yet seen the Alchemist giving out Philosopher's Stones. With all this talk about Plague this year, I may need one myself!
The nice thing about photography is that it is many different things to many different people and they are all viable pursuits. Pictures that illustrate the social bonds built around the Faire just illustrates the very special nature of the event. Just my Humble Opinion.
I first came to RenFaire because my daughter works there (Amanda at the first Steak on a Stake booth ). I got interested in shooting Jousting because at the core I'm a wildlife photographer so shooting any kind of action, especially something involving animals, is interesting to me, and technically very challenging to do it right. However, I keep getting slowly dragged, kicking and screaming, into the social fabric here :-). I'm not a gregarious person by nature but it is a fine group of people hard to resist, once you get past the strange apparel :-). I might even start garbing up if I get past the strategical challenges (being primarily a photographer dragging a lot of gear along) :-)
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Post by Sir Black Fox on Sept 1, 2009 11:37:27 GMT -5
What immediately captures my interest and the spirit of MDRF are pictures of patrons being given philosophers' stones by the Village alchemist. I have to say, after receiving a handful of philosopher's stones AND a plague-free card from the village alchemist, all of my daughter's puss-filled postules have subsided.
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Neilr
PLAYTRON!
Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Sept 1, 2009 12:11:26 GMT -5
After watching the video, I think the stones are a better idea
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Post by Mathemactor on Sept 1, 2009 13:18:05 GMT -5
Hehe... Mathemactor, one thing for sure is that most people like pictures of themselves :-). That was my opening shot as I walked in the gate. Stupina was next, but she is a staple shot. I have not yet seen the Alchemist giving out Philosopher's Stones. With all this talk about Plague this year, I may need one myself! The nice thing about photography is that it is many different things to many different people and they are all viable pursuits. Pictures that illustrate the social bonds built around the Faire just illustrates the very special nature of the event. Just my Humble Opinion. I first came to RenFaire because my daughter works there (Amanda at the first Steak on a Stake booth ). I got interested in shooting Jousting because at the core I'm a wildlife photographer so shooting any kind of action, especially something involving animals, is interesting to me, and technically very challenging to do it right. However, I keep getting slowly dragged, kicking and screaming, into the social fabric here :-). I'm not a gregarious person by nature but it is a fine group of people hard to resist, once you get past the strange apparel :-). I might even start garbing up if I get past the strategical challenges (being primarily a photographer dragging a lot of gear along) :-) Hi, Neil, Yes everyone, but especially the cast, love pictures of themselves (believe it or not!) After all, they are actors! I especially do like the joust photos. You captured a flying lance tip already and will, hopefully be there to capture a shattered lance or two and perhaps even a good unhorsing. That is where the action is. But you have some wonderful musician shots too. Great expressions---you can really see the passion, for example, in Greg of Carrolton's face. Oh, and your daughter's is my favorite Stake on a Stake place---it is closest to the costume house and so is my first rest stop on the long walk down to the Globe.
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Post by willpaisley on Sept 1, 2009 13:58:07 GMT -5
Cast have a special reason for loving pictures of themselves - it's the best way of showing their friends and relatives what they do out in the woods for all those weekends, and it's hard for them to take pictures of each other, as there are very few period digital Nikon SLRs floating about. Pics with audience reaction are priceless, since your family concludes that you merely have a fetish for uncomfortable clothing otherwise. ;D
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Neilr
PLAYTRON!
Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Sept 1, 2009 14:03:33 GMT -5
A lot of performers frequent that Stake on a Steak. My daughter tells me that they have a unique recipe, a bit different than the other(s). I like the fact that, at least in the slower hours I can get a Mooer. I did not do well at Jousting last weekend. I shot two sessions. There were some "new" poles obstructing the only decent shooting lane, that I managed to get taken down last year. (The management is very receptive to weird people like me asking for poles to be taken down and odd overgrown branches in the hedge removed. Most places would have told me to go pound sand). Plus I have a new camera body that does something I have always wanted a digital body to do (full 24x36 size sensor), very useful for jousting, but I had some strange arguments with the autofocus system that I haven't seen previously. Hopefully just needs a little more quality time together. That camera did some amazing things at Pub Sing, though, shooting right to the end without a flash when I wanted. I'm going to get some very interesting images at the later pub sings when it gets darker, things I could never do before. I shot two un-horsings last year, start to finish (I could make a neat video that I need to do some day), plus in 2007 the tip to tip strike with double broken tips, and a couple more tip to tips obvious in the images (rarely obvious) so I don't know what I'm going to do for an encore this year. Here is the 2007 tip to tip with double broken tips: www.pbase.com/nrothschild/image/85025749/originaland a crop of the tips: www.pbase.com/nrothschild/image/85025753/original(that was done with a 4 megapixel camera, so don't believe everything you read about needing a zillion megapixels) And the unhorsing last year: www.pbase.com/nrothschild/image/104808818/originalwww.pbase.com/nrothschild/image/104812056/originalThose are two different un-horsings, one at the 2pm event and the other at the 6pm event (it was rather dark at that point, being the final weekend championship). They happened identically, to the extent possible. This is one of my favorite jousting shots, with Sir Barchan in red. That was shot at noon during the final 2008 weekend. I usually skip the noon show (experienced photographers avoid harsh high noon light) but that is a unique angle and vantage point- but only rarely if things line up right within the 1/10 second that the riders converge. Otherwise it's not a good shooting angle for a number of reasons. I tried to reproduce that setup on Sunday at the noon session but things did not work out. That won't be easy to reproduce. This is actually harder than shooting birds in flight, and takes more luck and persistence. www.pbase.com/nrothschild/image/109347406/original
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Post by Mathemactor on Sept 1, 2009 15:28:01 GMT -5
That one is the 6:00 joust unhorsing that won one of the photography awards last season, and is my personal favorite (note the cheerleading alchemist just above the horse's butt, in the stands.)
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Neilr
PLAYTRON!
Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Sept 1, 2009 16:02:59 GMT -5
That one is the 6:00 joust unhorsing that won one of the photography awards last season, and is my personal favorite (note the cheerleading alchemist just above the horse's butt, in the stands.) Yea, but I only got an HM. Maybe I should have submitted the 2PM unhorsing :-). On second thought I should have cropped it differently but I never could figure out a decent crop for that image. I'm glad you remember the image. I think you like it just because you turned up in the background :-). That worked out very well.
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Post by Mathemactor on Sept 2, 2009 17:05:14 GMT -5
I'm glad you remember the image. I think you like it just because you turned up in the background :-). That worked out very well. Actually, I like it because it captured an unhorsing, which doesn't happen all that often, and that one was very dramatic. You were at the right place and were ready. The horse and (former) rider show lots of action in the photo. Sunday, there were a few shattered lances, but we are still waiting for the first unhorsing of the season.
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Neilr
PLAYTRON!
Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Sept 3, 2009 20:34:10 GMT -5
I've seen maybe 3 un-horsings previously. Usually I hear about the one last week when I wasn't there. The unhorsings I've seen are impossible to shoot because they happen near or at the end of the runway which is always obstructed from the angles you would want to shoot everything else. I asked a knight about this and he confirmed that riders don't just fly off the horses, it is a very slow process.
So, yea, I was quite surprised when he flew straight off the horse in the middle of the field- twice in one day.
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Post by willpaisley on Sept 22, 2009 13:32:29 GMT -5
Plus I have a new camera body that does something I have always wanted a digital body to do (full 24x36 size sensor), very useful for jousting, but I had some strange arguments with the autofocus system that I haven't seen previously. Hopefully just needs a little more quality time together. That camera did some amazing things at Pub Sing, though, shooting right to the end without a flash when I wanted. I'm going to get some very interesting images at the later pub sings when it gets darker, things I could never do before. The fact that your pics are that bright during the last half of Pub Sing is amazing to me. I sit much closer (probably 30mm or so for the same field of view), and with an exposure time over twice as long (1/80s), I can only get as much light as you get here by going into Photoshop and cranking the gamma up something fierce. (I'd link to my own pics, except they're on FaceBook, which is blocked from my current location).
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Neilr
PLAYTRON!
Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Sept 22, 2009 14:15:18 GMT -5
Will,
I shot that at ISO 3200 F/2.8 1/320s with a D700 and 70-200/2./8. If I had been using my D300 (a DX 16x24 sensor) I probably would have shot it at ISO 1600, 1/160s, and I could have gone to F/4 1/80s but then I would have started to have subject motion problems. I've put a lot of time and $$$ into getting into a position to shoot low light for theater work and some other commercial things, so it comes in handy there.
For Sunday's pub sing I shot an 85mm F/1.4 lens but the depth of field was so narrow I can't often get more than one person in focus at the same time. The front row was empty at 6 so I took advantage of that. I usually end up at the back or one of the poles at the side (if I can even get in the same county) because I usually shoot the 6pm jousting but the light isn't right for that this late in the season.
Interestingly, the big problem Sunday in the first row was the setting sun backlighting the stage and creating some serious flare issues. That won't be a problem in a week or two...
It will get tougher as the season progresses since it gets darker 10 minutes earlier every week now. But then they will probably turn the lights on earlier, making that a push. Even with the lights though, I think I was shooting ISO 1600 F/2.8 1/10s by the final weekend, making things very tough. It's hard to catch 5 or 6 performers all motionless at the same instant.
I think you can send me an email or PM here... I can try to help you with your settings. I shot Pub Sing fully manual because most camera meters get confused between the bright background outside the pavilion and the darker interior. It also badly confuses the white balance sensor. Did you shoot an auto exposure mode? And say Hi if you ever see me. I always have a baseball cap and carry my gear on a belt system. That narrows it down a bit.
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Post by willpaisley on Sept 24, 2009 13:27:09 GMT -5
I shot that at ISO 3200 F/2.8 1/320s with a D700 and 70-200/2./8. If I had been using my D300 (a DX 16x24 sensor) I probably would have shot it at ISO 1600, 1/160s, and I could have gone to F/4 1/80s but then I would have started to have subject motion problems. I've put a lot of time and $$$ into getting into a position to shoot low light for theater work and some other commercial things, so it comes in handy there. 1/80 is as low as I'll go for that very reason. The primary reason I got a digital SLR is so I could a) control the shutter speed and b) takes multiple shots in rapid succession. I've been relying on Photoshop and the like to handle my lighting issues. Interestingly, the big problem Sunday in the first row was the setting sun backlighting the stage and creating some serious flare issues. That won't be a problem in a week or two... Mother of Jeezus, ain't it the truth. From my angle I was staring directly into the sun at the beginning of pub sing. I had to wait for performers to block the light before I could shoot anything. It will get tougher as the season progresses since it gets darker 10 minutes earlier every week now. But then they will probably turn the lights on earlier, making that a push. Even with the lights though, I think I was shooting ISO 1600 F/2.8 1/10s by the final weekend, making things very tough. It's hard to catch 5 or 6 performers all motionless at the same instant. 1) I can't keep my hands steady enough to shoot at 1/10s. I don't think I could even shoot a statue from a tripod at that speed without blur. 2) Remind me to tell you a story about the circumstances surrounding the mounting of that light a few years ago. I think you can send me an email or PM here... I can try to help you with your settings. I shot Pub Sing fully manual because most camera meters get confused between the bright background outside the pavilion and the darker interior. It also badly confuses the white balance sensor. Did you shoot an auto exposure mode? I've got a Nikon D50, and I usually shoot on manual, though come to think of it, I have no idea what the F stop is set on. I presume it's as open as it will go, but it's been ages since I've futzed with it. Come to think of it, I normally shoot on shutter priority, which lets the camera set everything but the shutter speed. When it gets dark, I turn the autofocus off, since the camera takes too long to focus in bad light and I miss shots while it's scratching its head. If the ISO speed's even adjustable on this thin, it's news to me And say Hi if you ever see me. I always have a baseball cap and carry my gear on a belt system. That narrows it down a bit. I look just like my profile pic, except when I'm wearing my new yellow shirt. At Pub Sing, I'm front row, opposite side from you, nearest to the center, with a video camera in the left hand and my SLR in my right.
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Neilr
PLAYTRON!
Posts: 23
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Post by Neilr on Sept 25, 2009 9:58:58 GMT -5
Will, A DSLR in one hand and a video in the other? How did I miss you? Hehe. I've never shot a D50 but it is supposed to be a decent low light camera for it's day (they get better at that every 12-24 months or so). You can probably get decent images up to ISO 800 or so. Check your manual or download it here: support.nikontech.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/13948#Anchor-21683It's on the shooting menu, ISO. Rather than trying to boost JPGs in Photoshop you are better off shooting ISO 1600, because you are doing more or less the same thing in Photoshop, just not as well. If you like low light shooting you should look into a VR lens, maybe the 18-55VR or 55-200VR, whichever focal length you like (or both). Or, if you want to sell your kids and wife or take out a mortgage to solve this problem, I could suggest some other lenses :-). An alternative (and in many ways a better solution than VR) is a fast prime lens, like the 50mm F/1.8 (cheap at about $135 now). That helps solve the subject motion problem that VR cannot solve (and why I shot my 85/1.4 last week). However, you need very accurate focus to make a fast lens work for you, more accurate than you can probably do by eye with a D50 in that light. First thing, though, is to find that ISO setting.
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