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Post by Sir Black Fox on Aug 8, 2006 16:41:01 GMT -5
Historical accuracy at MDRF and how important is it? I know folks fall on both sides of the argument but where do YOU fall? Let's discuss the idea (no personal attacks please or the responses will be edited).
The argument is wide and varied. Does it apply just to the festival's staff or should we playtrons also try to keep accurate? (Are Pyrates Henry VIII Tudor?) How far should one go with accuracy (MDRF represents Tudor times, so where's all the plague victims)? Is clothing of the period accurately represented in paintings and woodcuts or would those display only the very best of everyone's appearance (like today's portraits, you don't wear your worst outfits for them, do you)?
Hey, as for me, the Black Fox outfit is so 12th century it's not funny. . . but I get stopped for photos all the time so the mundanes must like it!
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pynchosalt
Ren Geek
But why is the rum gone?
Posts: 88
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Post by pynchosalt on Aug 8, 2006 23:22:40 GMT -5
I know this is a debate a lot of festivals and faires are having. As part of a reenactment group, I'm all for historical accuracy. I actually put a lot of energy into developing a character with a plausible backstory (you know, black lady living in Scotland -- must be love ) Sometimes, I actually get to talk about my story when I'm in character. However, I also think MDRF should be fun and accessible to all. If you insist on strict historical accuracy (as some groups and some faires do), you run the risk of becoming too esoteric for the general populace to enjoy. And if people don't enjoy themselves, they stop coming. No patrons, no profits. No profits, no faire. With that said, I don't see anything wrong with throwing in a few learning opportunities. When folks come up to me in garb and ask questions (sometimes even when they don't ask), I throw in a little history. But I don't mind the Star Wars clone troopers or the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings look-a-likes, as long as everyone is having fun and making friends. OK, I'll shut up for now.
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Post by ladyneysa on Aug 9, 2006 0:50:35 GMT -5
I'm sure there are as many opinions on this subject as there are festival patrons! Historical accuracy, or at least what is accepted as accuracy(my opinion- no one can be 100%) isn't that important to me. I want my garb to look good in that I don't get stared at for the wrong reasons but I'm certainly not accurate. Going all nutso about it isn't worth it to me. A patron should feel free to wear what they like-although I would prefer attire to be family friendly. (all the cleavage hanging out is to be expected, but I want other body parts to be covered!) I enjoy the variety of garb seen at fest. I think a mix of historical and fantasy,etc. adds to the flavor. People watching is all part of the fun and it wouldn't be nearly as entertaining if everyone wore basically the same thing.
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Post by majorchaos on Aug 9, 2006 8:27:17 GMT -5
Historical accuracy at MDRF and how important is it? The argument is wide and varied. Does it apply just to the festival's staff or should we playtrons also try to keep accurate? I think that festival staff should strive for accuracy as best as they can, especially if they are going to have a story line. However, incorporating some of the fictional characters is not a bad thing either. As for playtrons, well, the name says it all.. play.. if they want to try to be historically accurate, then I say go for it. Feel free to portray a plague victim but that's a down side to the times and well, the faire is about the happy times. So, it gets glossed over. I'd say, for the most part yes. You can find artist renditions of all parts of the life and times. However, (i suspect) most artists were paid to portray the upper class, so, that's what is seen in most art work. As for pirates, the typical pirate that most like to dress up as, are the hollywood style of pirate. A Golden Age of Piracy accurate pirate re-enactment is less colorful (for the most part). For Tudor times, they'd most likely look a lot different, and since there are not many reports from that time of pirates, the GAoP type pirate is what you'll most likely see. All that being said, as far as I know, this faire is more of an entertainment type of faire. Not really a teaching faire. I say, if you want to dress up and go to faire, do so, tastefully. Unfortunately, some peoples idea of "tastefully" is different from others. The point really is to go and have fun!
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Post by banalbannach on Aug 9, 2006 11:16:26 GMT -5
Another of my favorite topics but not for ranting. I think at a minimum fair employees portraying named people should be dressed accuratly and the fair does a pretty good job with this. I'd love it if ALL of the fair employees were in appropriate garb but that would be a huge expense. The skill/resources required for period dress are beyond the means of much of the general public. I personally found the mini seminars on period garb and maners to be very interesting but they were not very well attended (location/PR?). Unless they already know about period garb or attend the seminar, I don't see how the public would be able to judge the accuracy of the garb being sold at fair. I wish there were more vendors selling accurate garb. Some kind of disclaimer as to how accurate a vendor's garb is would be nice. Especially for those people who get bit by the faire bug and are interested in some level of accuracy. When I was a boothie, I used to love to sit on a bench just beyond the fountain and watch the people come in they come up with some truely amazing outfits (some good, some bad) but always interesting.
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Post by tigerlily on Aug 10, 2006 10:27:26 GMT -5
I think it comes down to a matter of personal taste and do-ability. Ren garb IS pricey. I am just now beginning to build my wardrobe supply and there's been much $$ that's been put into it. I do think there should probably be a bit of a higher calling for those working the faire, as they add greatly to the whole atmosphere of the faire. But as far as historical accuracy? Well, we call it the 'Renaissance' festival, but is it really? Most garb that I see isn't derived from the Renaissance period but more from dark to middle ages (maybe the Renaissance fell toward the end of the middle ages...I would look it up, but I'm lazy and not a history expert, for sure.) I have friends who are into the SCA and who have gotten a bit turned off by some of their comrades' attitudes toward historical accuracy, in that many have become "garb Nazis"...my one friend complained that he'd been chastised by some other members for not sewing his garb by hand, but instead, had used a sewing machine! And he was one of the founding members of the local chapter! So it can be a hair-splitting issue. I agree with my SCA friend who says that yes, he wants to be historically accurate (I hate it when I see someone at the faire - and not on "wrong" day - dressed in Edwardian or Victorian clothing), but not so much that it ruins the fun of it. The bottom line is, why are we doing this? Because we enjoy it! If we try to more or less capture the feel of the time period, then that's good enough for me. Again, just my 2 cents' worth...ta ta!
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Post by Ana on Aug 10, 2006 12:32:19 GMT -5
As the others have said, historical accuracy is very important for staff/characters/etc but I don't think it should become the overarching must for wearing garb at the faire. Especially if you want this to remain accessible to the large percentage of people who visit the MDRF and (hopefully) get sucked in. When I bought my first bits of garb, I'dve been quite intimidated if I'd been told it had to be as historically accurate as possible. (especially since there was elastic in the waistband of my skirt ) I guess I think of it that we aren't in that time period, we're only vaguely approximating it in order to have a good excuse for a wonderful weekend and to get too strict about something like what people are wearing (as long as they've got all the naughty bits covered) would just make it less fun. Plus I like looking at all the neat things people wear, even if no one in the Renaissance would've been caught dead wearing it.
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Post by Empresa Anna on Aug 11, 2006 8:02:55 GMT -5
For some reason the whole topic makes me think of the "dark elves" as they called themselves. I don't know if anyone else remembers them at the fair. They used to paint their faces blackish blue and walk around as silent as the grave. Kinda creepy really. But anyway when speakng of historical accuracy I see no harm of adding a touch of whimsy. I think it makes the fair much more enjoyable. Live, laugh , and play at the faire.
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Post by Amras on Aug 11, 2006 8:26:38 GMT -5
I'm only there for the fun...if I'd have wanted to keep following uniform regulations, I'd have stayed in the army...so, as you can tell, historical accuracy at faire interests me not in the slightest...I do very much respect those who try to adhere to some accurate template, and admire what they are trying to accomplish, but its not for me. Besides, if we were 100% accurate at faire, a good portion of us would not be there, having died of small pox or plague at exceedingly young years, and further, there would'nt be a Pepsi product in sight... Amras "my vaccination scar makes me non-period, anyway" Elfwine P.S...I bought some really cool blue spectacle lenses I entend to wear this year...take that, arrogant garb nazis!
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Post by willpaisley on Aug 15, 2006 11:14:57 GMT -5
Another of my favorite topics but not for ranting. I think at a minimum fair employees portraying named people should be dressed accuratly and the fair does a pretty good job with this. I'd love it if ALL of the fair employees were in appropriate garb but that would be a huge expense. The skill/resources required for period dress are beyond the means of much of the general public. I personally found the mini seminars on period garb and maners to be very interesting but they were not very well attended (location/PR?). I think the biggest reason for lack of attendance is that not a whole lot of people shive two gits. As far as the "mundanes" are concerned, you've got people juggling knives and chainsaws while balancing on bowling balls to see - why go listen to somebody talk about articles of clothing the names of which you can hardly pronounce? For the people who really are into that sort of stuff, most of them have done their own research long before faire opened. As others have said, MDRF isn't a historical/education focused faire - it's far more about grabbing a turkey leg, something to drink, and watching a (usually outrageous) show. Unless they already know about period garb or attend the seminar, I don't see how the public would be able to judge the accuracy of the garb being sold at fair. I wish there were more vendors selling accurate garb. Some kind of disclaimer as to how accurate a vendor's garb is would be nice. Especially for those people who get bit by the faire bug and are interested in some level of accuracy. Though the logistics of it could get quite involved, that is an excellent idea. One thing that would complicate matters is that many people who want "authentic" clothing want it for the purpose of having "faire legal" garb for this faire or that, and that call is up to that faire's particular Garb Nazi for that year. Still, what you get right now if you're trying to determine the "authenticity" of a piece of garb is a bit of a lecture from the vendor with more vague language and instances of "well, it depends" than a warranty explanation from a used car salesman (not to say that the info isn't accurate, only that it's a complicated subject to try to explain in the middle of a busy store). Any kind of information or instruction would be a welcome improvement. Chances are, if you're shelling out the amount of money needed to get garbed up at MDRF, you are probably at least a bit interested in historical accuracy.
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Post by banalbannach on Aug 16, 2006 10:17:45 GMT -5
Sorry, can't get the quote thingy to work. It was interesting to see in the schedule some items that look like they might be educational. I'll have to try to stop in though most are directly opposite my favorite acts. I would not have known that there was a garb demo if I hadn't stumbled onto it and I'm usually there all 19 days. Yes, I do fall into the category of those doing their own research but reading about something in a book versus being able to actually see it makes a big difference for me. I agree that a large part of the lack of attendance is due to the other "fun" things to do. You have expressed some of my wishes re the stuff sold at fair. I guess my real issue is that I hear over and over people talking about the first fair garb they bought. When they looked into it they realized it is fantasy garb. Some don't mind a bit and that's fine. I feel bad for those that wanted and thought they bought period clothing. You do make a good point about "faire legal" garb being different per faire. For me personally? I know my garb is only about 60% accurate and susually I'm perfectly happy with that and sometimes I'm not. Currently, truely accurate clothing is beyond the amount of inconvenience, time, skill and money that I'm willing to devote. I am glad that I at least know what is "wrong" with my garb should I ever decide to correct it.
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Post by ladyglorianna on Aug 16, 2006 11:03:53 GMT -5
There won't be a show on clothing this year, although you can ask the members of St George questions about it. The company is trying out three brand new shows this year.
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